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Gifts control

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Gifts control Empty Gifts control

Post  aceben3 Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:25 pm

1 Barren Moor
2 Lonely Sandbar
1 Swamp
2 Island
2 Snow-Covered Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Watery Grave
2 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Miren, the Moaning Well

4 Tarmogoyf

3 Vedalken Shackles (I hope that's enough Islands)
3 Cryptic Command
2 Threads of Disloyalty
4 Gifts Ungiven
3 Spell Snare
4 Rune Snag
3 Smother
2 Putrefy
1 Rude Awakening
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Life from the Loam
2 Damnation
2 Stifle

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Damnation
SB: 2 Threads of Disloyalty
SB: 2 Ghost Quarter
SB: 4 Negate
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Stifle
SB: 1 Kataki, War's Wage
SB: 2 Extirpate

I really believe in this deck, and I'm going to try to take it through lots of iterations and optimize it. Current issues include tweaking the nonislands and removal correctly, and maybe finding some more maindeckable permission. 1 Negate and the 3rd Smother might get added, and I might shave a land. I want another win condition, but I'm not sure if I want a creature (Meloku) or a land (Urza's Factory). I tried Ancestral Visions, but with 4 Gifts already that felt like too many cards that can only draw more cards. Plans:

Tron: Recur Ghost Quarter on their manabase and use Grudges and Putrefies to stop their attempts to stop you with Chalice or Crucible. Stifle their Decrees, or Damnation them away. If you can Extirpate their Tron when they Gifts, that's good. Also, they don't have a ton of win conditions so stripping them of Mindslavers or whatever can be very handy. Loam, Ghost Quarter, Lonely Sandbar, Ancient Grudge is a common Gifts pile.
+2 Extirpate +2 Grudge +1 Stifle +4 Negate +2 Ghost Quarter -1 Miren -3 Smother -2 Damnation -3 Shackles -2 Threads

Affinity: Use removal, counterspells, and Damnation to not die. Smother, Putrefy/Kataki, Grudge, and Damnation is a pretty solid Gifts Pile. If you wipe their board but have no action you can just Ghost Quarter them every turn while you try to find cycle lands to get action.
+2 Grudge +1 Kataki +1 Damnation -2 Stifle (-1 Gifts -1 Rude Awakening or -2 Threads)

Zoo: Pretty similar to Affinity, but Threads is your 2-for-1 of choice, not Grudge.
+1 Damnation +2 Threads -2 Stifle -1 Grudge (Stifle might stay in if I wanna take out Rude or maybe a Gifts. But I like how fast Rude kills them when they're digging for burn, and Gifts is just such gas)

Feedback welcome, on the deck or any superrelevant matchups you think I'm missing.


Last edited by aceben3 on Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gifts control Empty Re: Gifts control

Post  aceben3 Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:28 pm

Changes:
MD: +1 Stifle +1 Island -1 Smother -1 Hallowed Fountain
SB: -1 Stifle -1 Kataki +1 Smother +1 Extirpate

I was originally splashing white for a Ray of Revelation in the SB, which made Kataki justifiable. But I don't think I need Ray, so Kataki can probably go. I wanted another Stifle main because it's even less useless than I thought, and you need lots of them to make sure you don't die to Decree of Justice. I really suggest you play the Tron matchup many times because it seems awful until you figure some things out. Of course the fact that you have so many blanks game 1 doesn't really help, but you also have some very powerful cards against them.
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Gifts control Empty Re: Gifts control

Post  GerryT Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:00 pm

Ray also isn't legal.
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Post  aceben3 Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:08 pm

Hmm, I can't remember if I realized that or just decided I didn't need to kill enchantments. Sad
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Gifts control Empty Re: Gifts control

Post  aceben3 Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:06 pm

1 Barren Moor
2 Lonely Sandbar
1 Swamp
3 Island
3 Snow-Covered Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Flooded Grove

4 Tarmogoyf

1 Logic Knot
1 Worm Harvest
3 Cryptic Command
3 Threads of Disloyalty
4 Gifts Ungiven
3 Spell Snare
4 Rune Snag
3 Smother
2 Putrefy
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Life from the Loam
2 Damnation
3 Stifle

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Damnation
SB: 1 Threads of Disloyalty
SB: 1 Ghost Quarter
SB: 4 Negate
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 3 Dark Confidant
SB: 3 Extirpate
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Gifts control Empty Re: Gifts control

Post  kennyc Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:15 am

i like firespout better than damnation in this build, because if u threads a goyf it usually dosent die to spout, and it kills everything else. i also do like ancient grudge over darkblast

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Gifts control Empty Re: Gifts control

Post  aceben3 Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:54 pm

GerryT's build:

4 Tarmogoyf

3 Spell Snare
2 Stifle
4 Ancestral Visions
3 Mana Leak
1 Voidslime
1 Negate
3 Cryptic Command
1 Damnation
3 Firespout
1 Life from the Loam
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Smother
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Darkblast
1 Worm Harvest

1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
2 Lonely Sandbar
1 Barren Moor
1 Sunken Ruins
3 Snow-Covered Island
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Flooded Strand

Sideboard
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Firespout
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Stifle
3 Extirpate
1 Raven's Crime
1 Smother

Maybe a Muddle the Mixture main and some number of Dark Heart of the Wood SB. Also you can transmute for Loam if control decks counter your gifts.
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Post  tulsatrey Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:59 pm

Oh man, I loved Spell Snare before 'Goyf and Bitterblossom. I can't wait to use it again.
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Gifts control Empty Re: Gifts control

Post  aceben3 Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:04 pm

I think these UBx Legacy decks are interesting:
http://www.deckcheck.net/list.php?type=UBx%20Control&format=Legacy
In particular, these 2:
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=17614
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=15954

Now that the 1-mana 3/3 for Zoo has been spoiled I agree that Firespout definitely seems better. I also think the one Engineered Explosives is definitely awesome now.
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Gifts control Empty Re: Gifts control

Post  aceben3 Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:46 am

// Lands
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
2 Lonely Sandbar
1 Barren Moor
1 Sunken Ruins
3 Snow-Covered Island
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain

// Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf

// Spells
4 Spell Snare
3 Stifle
2 Cryptic Command
3 Firespout
1 Life from the Loam
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Smother
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Worm Harvest
4 Ancestral Vision
1 Negate
1 Damnation
1 Raven's Crime
1 Mortify
2 Mana Leak

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Stifle
SB: 1 Firespout
SB: 1 Smother
SB: 3 Ancient Grudge
SB: 3 Extirpate
SB: 3 Threads of Disloyalty
SB: 3 Annul

My newest iteration. Some things are experiments, like Mortify and Annul. You need something to take care of Bitterblossom against Faeries, and Threads too if you plan on winning with Goyfs. I found that EE was too slow and hard to find, and them Stifling that is gruesome. If you can Gifts up EE recursion, you can set up Worm Harvest recursion anyway. EE is the stones against Zoo, but I think another answer is needed for Faeries. I tried Vexing Shusher in the board, but they can just Threads that too and you're in the same hole you were before. The 4th Spell Snare main is another concession to Bob and Bitterblossom, as well as a million other things of course. It's not been dead often enough to annoy me.
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Post  GerryT Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:03 pm

Syphon Life. Can't believe I missed that one.
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Post  aceben3 Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:26 pm

Everything I've done to the deck has basically just made it more like PLU. Threads main etc. Cryptic Command is so expensive. I also very much dislike getting my Tarmogoyfs Threadsed. It's not as bad when you're playing your own Threads, but I'm sort of surveying other options...Finks or Wall of Roots I guess. I guess I don't get why your sideboard shouldn't be able to make you sufficiently beat combo. Trickbind, Crime, Negate all seem very tough to beat.

Good find.

I realize how stupid it sounds to not play Tarmogoyf just because people play Threads, but I find I don't kill people with them often, so it seems like I could just find a more defensive substitute. I dunno.
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Post  GerryT Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:30 am

Depends what sort of matchup you're talking about where they have Threads. Post some lists of decks that you want to fight and I'll tell you what plan you should be on and why.

You can't beat Pact of Negation and or Gigadrowse. Combo is the worst matchup by far, and that's why blue decks suck in this format. Banning Top was the worst thing they could have possibly done.
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Post  aceben3 Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:59 pm

// Lands
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
1 Lonely Sandbar
2 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
3 Snow-Covered Island
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

// Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf

// Spells
4 Spell Snare
1 Life from the Loam
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Smother
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Worm Harvest
1 Negate
1 Raven's Crime
2 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Vedalken Shackles
4 Ponder
3 Chrome Mox
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Damnation
1 Putrefy

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Negate
SB: 1 Threads of Disloyalty
SB: 3 Ancient Grudge
SB: 3 Extirpate
SB: 1 Syphon Life
SB: 4 Trickbind
SB: 1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
SB: 1 Quagnoth

The Putrefy is kinda iffy. I decided to try Thirst instead of Ancestrals, so I decided to try Shackles and Mox too. This build has a pretty reasonable game 1 against Affinity, which is one thing I couldn't get before. For awhile I had extra Raven's Crimes in the board instead of the extra Negate and Trickbind, but Trickbind forces them to actually find a Gigadrowse, and Negate counters Ad Nauseum, which is a huge problem if you haven't put them on a clock. Extirpate hasn't been that good recently, partially because I haven't really played against any Tron or Dredge decks. I feel like I should probably keep them though, "just to keep 'em honest." I might try to fit 2-3 Vendillion Cliques into the SB or even MD somehow, I dunno.

The hardest matchups to plan out are the ones where I don't really have a lot of time to cast Gifts, but they still have removal for Tarmogoyfs. For example, Faeries or Death Cloud.
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Post  GerryT Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:28 pm

You don't need that many duals. Play an Overgrown Tomb and some Mires. Getting Tomb and Grave is much easier than Pool, Grave, Grave.

Still don't see how you ever beat combo.
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Post  aceben3 Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:20 pm

Usually lose game 1 unless they get screwed somehow. Maybe I should have a couple of Stifles main but they're so underwhelming so often. The postboard plan is to sit on Trickbind while I Crime them multiple times a turn. It's mostly worked so far, but I understand how sketchy it seems to lean on the board so heavily. Bring a combo deck to KC and I'll proxy this up. This isn't a macho challenge or anything, I'd just like to play some games against a good player if there's time.

The reason I changed the manabase was to support Shackles a little better. Green mana is a little rough sometimes, ugh I dunno. I might change it back. Maybe I'll cut the Sunken Ruins since I added Urborg so I can put the Tomb back and keep my Island count the same. I don't normally use Shackles to take big shit anyway so it probably isn't important.

Thanks for the continued help by the way.
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Post  aceben3 Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:27 am

Since this deck is my favorite thing ever to play and tinker with, here's an update:

// Lands
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Island
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Swamp

// Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

// Spells
1 Life from the Loam
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Smother
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Worm Harvest
1 Negate
1 Raven's Crime
2 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Damnation
3 Chrome Mox
2 Cryptic Command
1 Darkblast
1 Vedalken Shackles
3 Firespout

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Threads of Disloyalty
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 3 Ancient Grudge
SB: 3 Extirpate
SB: 2 Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 Glen Elendra Archmage
SB: 1 Syphon Life

I want to try Chapin's version with Bant Charm and Glittering Wish too. Bant Charm is nice and a better catch-all than Cryptic, but I like the black cards better overall I think. Darkblast is so good against Elves and Faeries. I could probably write a book about this deck. Maybe I will.
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Post  Solomon Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:32 pm

I found it interesting that there was not a single Elves! deck in top8 at the Winter King Event> http://www.deckcheck.net/event.php?event=2008+Winter+King Night of Soul's Betrayer and other hate tend to do that though!
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Gifts control Empty Re: Gifts control

Post  aceben3 Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:33 pm

Gifts Rock
Robert Graves
1st place at the Winter King $3k

1 Etched Oracle
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Ravenous Baloth
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Selkie Hedge-Mage
4 Tarmogoyf

2 Chrome Mox
4 Engineered Explosives
1 Firespout
4 Gifts Ungiven
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Putrefy
1 Reclaim
1 Smother
4 Spell Snare
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Vedalken Shackles

1 Academy Ruins
1 Blood Crypt
2 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
2 Twilight Mire
1 Watery Grave
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Clearwater Goblet
1 Deathmark
1 Firespout
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Jund Charm
1 Putrefy
1 Ravenous Baloth
1 Smother
2 Vedalken Shackles

Rather interesting. There are some slots I don't understand, and some slots I think I understand but just hate, but I think the overall deck is really solid. My lists have been moving away from counterspells because they mostly all suck, so it's good to see I might have been on the right track, kinda sorta.
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