Post SoA: 5 Color Control

Here's my 5 Color Control deck...

Ultimus Prime Control

2 Cloudthresher
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Mulldrifter
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 River Kelpie
2 Shriekmaw

3 Bant Charm
1 Cruel Ultimatum (just to try out)
4 Cryptic Command
3 Esper Charm
3 Firespout
2 Makeshift Mannequin
2 Oona's Grace
2 Wrath of God

Manabase coming soon!

SB:
2 Cloudthresher
1 Firespout
1 Kitchen Finks
3 Raking Canopy
2 Shriekmaw
4 Wispmare
2 Wrath of God

Obviously a deck like this is pretty dependent on the metagame, but...

Esper Charm should probably make it main. Maybe trim a Spout, Wrath is usually better than Burial. BA is pretty mediocre and you can probably just rely on Esper Charm to take care of early Bitterblossom. I like Sprouting Thrinax a lot, but I don't think he'll be castable on turn 3, which is pretty important. I don't think Rampant Growth is bad really, but it does force you to play some basics.

Without Teferi and Pact of Negation, how will true control decks make it against aggro-control like Merfolk or Faeries? I think that's a big design problem that has to be addressed. I'm not sure of the answer yet. Maybe Shushers, maybe Thoughtseizes, I don't know.

I made changes to my list. Thanks Ben! I would still like to proxy this up and take it for a spin. It's basically like the block version so it can't be that bad.

Not sure if this helps or anything, but this is my version:

3 Remove Soul
3 Esper Charm
2 Story Circle
4 Wrath of God
4 Cryptic Command
4 Mind Stone
2 Firespout
2 Oona's Grace

2 River Kelpie
4 Mulldrifter
4 Kitchen Finks

26 Land
4 Vivid Creek
4 Vivid Meadow
2 Esper Land
4 Mystic Gate
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Adarkar Wastes
3 Island
3 Cascade Bluffs

Sideboard
2 Firespout
4 Runed Halo
3 Condemn
2 Wispmare
2 Mind Shatter
1 Story Circle
1 Esper Charm

RDW
+ 4 Runed Halo, 3 Condemn, 1 Story Circle
- 2 River Kelpie, 3 Esper Charm, 2 Firespout, 1 Oona's Grace

Kithkin
+ 2 Firespout, 2 Condemn, 1 Story Circle
- 3 Esper Charm, 2 River Kelpie

Faeries
+ 1 Esper Charm, 2 Wispmare, 2 Mind Shatter, 1 Firespout
- 4 Wrath of God, 2 Story Circle

QNT
+ 1 Esper Charm, 2 Mind Shatter, 3 Condemn, 2 Runed Halo
- 2 Firespout, 4 Wrath of God, 2 Story Circle

Re: Story Circle...told you so!

@GerryT- No offense man, but where is your win condition? Take it with a large grain of salt though because I'm the guy that has 1 Cruel Ultimatum in my deck!

@aceben3- If 3 color decks and Esper Charm become popular like I predict, then wouldn't Story Circle become easy to deal with and therefore wasted space?

I really should put Remove Soul in at least.

Win conditions are irrelevant.

RDW and Kithkin don't have Esper Charm and those are the decks I want Story Circle against.

I guess I don't get it either unless your plan is to win with a mulldrifter I guess,otherwise your just gonna end up decking yourself from drawing cards,seems like you could use a couple Oona's or something.

You win through overwhelming card advantage, getting rdw in top deck mode while you have a full grip is a good place to be. Finks and mull drifter can get there. Ideally I'd think something like mesa or urza's factory would be the way to win, but since its rotating i dunno possibly 1x mobilization? (seems terrible imo).

That's fairly aggro for a GerryT deck.

RDW and Kithkin don't have Esper Charm and those are the decks I want Story Circle against.

This.

I could see playing a Nucklavee, but then I'm pretty worried about Faeries so I'd like to see a couple of Cloudthreshers. Maybe Esper Charm brings them down to your level already though.

Yeah, maybe I'll run a Nucklavee. It would actually be impossible to beat RDW if I'm planning on beating them with Circle and Halo, as they'll have a million blockers. I would rather play a Sacred Mesa, as that card was pretty sick, but Mobilization is trash.

I considered Cloudthresher, but without Ancestral, I think the only way they can beat you is with Blossom. Remove Soul should be able to stop Scion from blowing you out, and you could keep in a couple Firespouts in case they had Blossom in play for a while.

Hoofprints of the Stag or Worm Harvest with Oona's Grace? Call of the Skybreaker?

This is the technology I have discovered while Gatherering drunk.

List from Chapin's article:

2 Cloudthresher
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Mulldrifter
1 Nucklavee
2 Shriekmaw

4 Bant Charm
2 Broken Ambitions
4 Cryptic Command
3 Esper Charm
1 Makeshift Mannequin
2 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Firespout
2 Pyroclasm
2 Wrath Of God

3 Island
1 Cascade Bluffs
2 Flooded Grove
2 Mystic Gate
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Sunken Ruins
4 Vivid Creek
3 Vivid Grove
2 Vivid Marsh
3 Vivid Meadow

Thanks for the post Ben! Nucklavee seems like a great choice according to GerryT and confirmed in Chapin's build. It's interesting that he is not using Oona's Grace but maybe the CA is so huge Grace is not needed. I also see that he expects to face a good amount of Figure of Destiny, hence his choice of 2 Pyroclasm MD. I really don't think we need to fear that card since we have Shriekmaw and Bant Charm to deal with it if it gets out of hand. I've heard that Chapin has a hard-on for Cruel Ult. I just wonder if it's cost can be justified and/or it is just a win-more card. Broken Ambitions? It seems that Remove Soul would be better right now.

@aceben3-I think one or more of those cards belong in the SB.
Here is an update...

Ultimus Prime Control

2 Cloudthresher
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Mulldrifter
1 Nucklavee
2 Shriekmaw

3 Bant Charm
2 Broken Ambitions
4 Cryptic Command
3 Esper Charm
3 Firespout
2 Makeshift Mannequin
3 Remove Soul
2 Wrath of God

Manabase coming soon!

SB:
2 Cloudthresher
1 Firespout
1 Kitchen Finks
3 Raking Canopy
2 Shriekmaw
4 Wispmare
2 Wrath of God

If you play an Oona's Grace, you probably play a Kelpie too.

I know Gerry says he likes Remove Soul because it keeps Faeries from blowing you out with Scion, but I don't know what that means really, and I worry about them just defending their Scion with a counterspell anyway if they need it to resolve. Anyway, point is I still somewhat like Broken Ambitions.

I have never used a Hoofprints or Call, but I do think they're pretty decent 1-of win conditions. Hoofprints is probably better if you play Oona's Grace and Call is probably better otherwise. Hoofprints gets killed by Esper Charm now, so Call might be best.

I think dismissing Story Circle is a mistake. That card is often sick at States, and it's just good against the prevalent aggro decks right now anyway.

There's probably no reason to play Wispmare anymore, definitely no reason to play Raking Canopy.

Reread my post. I was talking specially about Bitterblossom, and how they could blow you out when you try to kill it by protecting it with Scion. Remove Soul is the cheapest way to force through a Wispmare or Charm.

Why wouldn't you play Wispmare? Again, without Ancestral, they cannot beat you if they don't have Bitterblossom. I would just load up on ways to beat it. Cloudthresher is the one that is irrelevant.

Story Circle is the blade.

Ok, that makes sense now.

Basically, I'm not convinced that they can't beat you without Bitterblossom since you don't have Teferi and Pact anymore. They still have stuff like Puppetteer Clique and Mind Shatter SB...seems a little rough to me still. I still haven't played any games yet though.

Mindshatter is not too bad if you're playing Oona's Grace. I beat a guy playing Doran and he hit me for 4 cards with Shatter only for me to recover later with Grace and win. Puppeteer Clique was problematic too and I think that card will be played at first until it is discovered that not many people will be packing Cloudthresher(you're right Gerry!) because he's not needed and can be a liability. Story Circle seems okay but it will depend on how many WW and Fae players will make up the meta. Lots Fae means lots of Wispmare in the SB or other enchant/art kill. That may not be so bad as you can side the Circles out for more Spout/Wrath/Shriek after you beat them with it game 1 which is actually crucial now that I come to my senses.

Bant Charm and Esper Charm are amazing by the way! There is so much versatility that it gets ridiculous trying to decide if you should keep a charm or use it right away.

I messed around with a version similiar to Chapin's build on MWS. It's pretty powerful and it handles aggro well but without the Grace it seemed to lack the CA to really overpower and this will make all the difference in a mirror match. Nucklavee is the shit and should be included along with some pyroclasm.

I actually sort of dislike Pyroclasm. Even Firespout isn't an auto-4-of to me because I expect basically every deck with creatures and white mana to have Burrenton Forge-Tenders. Wrath effects are much more reliable, so while I'd still play some Red sweepers, I don't want to lean on them. I also think Shriekmaw is still pretty decent, though your Black and Red cards are generally the hardest ones to cast, if it matters.

I worry about crap like Raven's Crime, and just generally not being able to generate enough raw CA. I don't feel Oona's Grace will compensate fully because the deck is so mana-hungry often. Thoughts on Tidings or Fathom Trawl? Or maybe Courier's Capsule?

It's not like Puppeteer Clique is dead if your opponent doesn't play Cloudthresher, but you might want to play fewer copies, sure.

Puppeteer Clique is completely trash if your opponent doesn't have Cloudthresher. Sure it's not DEAD, but it's certainly not something that you should be happy siding in, especially vs Remove Souls and shit.

try infest from shards of alara

@aceben3-I don't like clasm either but with 3-4 Bant Charms and 2 Shrieks it shouldn't be hard to contain 'Forgetender and wreck their house. When I was messing with Chapin's build, I took out the 'Threshers and added a Makeshift, a Firespout and it worked fine. The thing is, I kept wishing I had Grace mid to late game because I had a shite load of land and it went to waste. Black and red mana was very easy to obtain. In regards to Raven's Crime and CA, maybe -1 Mulldrifter and +1 Fathom Trawl?

@GerryT-I was looking at your list and it occurred to me at first that the Mindstone are not needed until I realized you have four copies of Wrath to accelerate into. I'll have to try your build for myself before I make any more comments. Still, I wonder if it needs a couple of heavy hitters?

@brabsis-I don't think Infest is needed (see post to Ben).

Infest seems like a pretty good alternative to pyroclasm though, since it can hit through forgetender, though i'm sure ben is correct in his assumption that pyroclasm isn't needed.

Here's what I'm trying next...

5 Color Control

4 Kitchen Finks
4 Mulldrifter
1 Nucklavee
1 River Kelpie
2 Shriekmaw

3 Bant Charm
1 Call the Skybreaker
4 Cryptic Command
3 Esper Charm
3 Firespout
2 Makeshift Mannequin
2 Oona's Grace
3 Remove Soul
2 Wrath of God

2 Arcane Sanctum
2 Island
1 Cascade Bluffs
2 Flooded Grove
2 Mystic Gate
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Sunken Ruins
4 Vivid Creek
2 Vivid Grove
2 Vivid Marsh
3 Vivid Meadow

SB:
1 Bant Charm
2 Counterbore
1 Esper Charm
2 Mind Shatter
4 Runed Halo
2 Wispmare
1 Worm Harvest
2 Wrath of God

I'm fairly sure Worm Harvest is trash without some way to get a lot of lands into the graveyard. You might do it by retracing a ton, but Call just seems better.

Your deck is begging for about 28 lands and 4 Prismatic Lenses. I don't know who came up with the idea of calling a bunch of shitty green decks "Big Mana." I'd want Mind Stones in there, but I also want to try Rampant Growth.

If you play Infest you'd have to significantly warp the manabase to get BB. That's not something I want to do.

Changes I suggest to the manabase:
-2 Arcane Sanctum
-1 Sunken Ruins
-2 Vivid Grove
+1 Vivid Meadow
+2 Mystic Gate
+2 Yavimaya Coast

Maybe jam another Yavimaya Coast in there somehow.

Glen Elendra Archmage is pretty sweet in the mirror, and I like Negate a lot. I'm not all that hot on Mind Shatter or Counterbore in the mirror, so I'd probably rather play those.