Pancakes.dec

10 forest
3 plains
1 island
4 Bant Panorama
4 flooded grove
1 wooded bastion

4 birds of paradise
4 talara's battalion
4 nettle sentinel
3 Qasali Ambusher
4 rhox war monk
2 Oversoul of Dusk
1 Rafiq of the Many

4 bant charm
4 snakeform
4 manamorphose
1 sigil of Distinction
2 loxodon warhammer

Sideboard:
2 Naturalize
4 Negate
2 Remove Soul
2 Runed Halo
3 Hindering Light
2 Burrenton Forge-tender


I was going to try to squeeze in Courier's Capsule but decided against it.

I tested this some and kind of want a fourth Qasali Ambusher. Also, it felt mana-heavy, but it probably isn't. I thought about taking out a couple Fertile Ground.

Bant Charm is ridiculous.
There are ten green instants (not counting manamorphose) for Nettle Sentinel tricks.
Bant Panorama is great for fishing out what you need to set up a Qasali ambush. I thought about running two of the RGW or WUB panorama as well, but that is probably a dumb idea. I might test it.

Suggestions? Should I be playing the Courier's Capsule or Kitchen Finks in place of something? Should I just play 5-color Control?

Actually, there's a thread on some other forums I post on basically about "is there any reason to play anything besides 5-color control" hah.

I haven't played with most of these cards so I'm a little tentative to say too much. I dislike the idea of Panoramas generally but if Quasali Ambusher is good then they're probably ok, just the UGW one. Kitchen Finks might not be a huge stud in your deck but I'd probably max out on War Monks. Bant Charm is completely sick and I'm fairly certain that I'll be playing 4 at States no matter what. It changes the format strategically too since Cryptic Command is so played. It's a card you really need to practice playing with and against. I've seen builds of UGW with Cryptic Command, Shorecrasher Mimics, Jhessian Infiltrators, and Rafiq of the Many...something to think about. They don't play Manamorphose, Talara's Battalion, or Nettle Sentinel.

For sideboard options I'd consider Burrenton Forge-Tender for RDW or Firespout decks, maybe Runed Halo or Story Circle, possibly Negate or Glen Elendra Archmage for 5cc, and something to deal with swarms against Kithkin. Most decks like this one would splash Firespout and either play Wrath or Soul Snuffers. If you're not going to play Vivids you can't do that. I suppose Fertile Ground and Manamorphose would let you? Maybe there's a reason to play the RGW Panorama after all. One advantage you have is that they won't expect Firespout probably since you don't look like you can cast it.

What forum would that be?

they won't expect Firespout probably since you don't look like you can cast it.

I really like this idea, but I worry about the effectiveness of Firespout with so many fat asses running around. I'll probably try two each of 'Spout and Wrath in the board.

Thanks for the tips. I might try that Rafiq build you mentioned.

P.S. -- Have I mentioned how much I like Manamorphose?

teamnemagic

update:

-4 fertile ground; +2 Wooded Bastion, +1 Rhox War Monk, +1 Rafiq of the Many

Played this tonight without filter lands or a sideboard and split with Tony. I really like this deck.

I was just thinking about running all basics except for four Bant Panoramas and four Terramorphic Expanses (or Esper Panoramas). Fulminator Mage can really set you back if you are relying on filters...

If I did that, I may have to replace one Oversoul of Dusk with something else (a second Rafiq?).

This is probably a bad idea.

Also, the BoaB Bant deck used the new equipment with the X cost... I prefer the Hammers, but maybe I should only run 2 Hammer and run 1 Sigil of Distinction.

Honestly I think hammer is just plain better. The trample is so important and the lifelink is huge in races.

Fulminator Mage isn't played often enough for you to significantly alter your manabase to defend against it. Warhammer is pretty much just better than Sigil.

10 forest
4 plains
3 island
4 Bant Panorama
1 flooded grove
1 wooded bastion

4 birds of paradise
4 talara's battalion
4 nettle sentinel
3 Qasali Ambusher
4 rhox war monk
2 Oversoul of Dusk
1 Rafiq of the Many

4 bant charm
4 snakeform
4 manamorphose
2 loxodon warhammer
1 Sigil of Distinction


This is the latest iteration. I'll put Flooded Groves in when I get them, but this mana base is actually working well for now.

I took out Sigil Blessing. As fun as it was with Nettle Sentinel on "D," it was never really that good.

I like the one Sigil of Distinction. Three Warhammers felt like too many, especially when trample and lifelink are redundant with some of my creatures anyway. I may replace it later.

Brought it back. Knight of the Reliquary gets big. I'll post an updated list when I finish tinkering with it.

I still like my deck lots, though I'm thinking of dropping the 3 seasides and 3 treetops for 6 basics.

Chuck, you have to find a place for Knight of the Reliquary. It's just too good.

I was thinking about adding 2 Treetop Villages to my build to search up with my new favorite creature.

Of course, I was also thinking about adding one or two Soul's Majesty.

Also, a one-of Mosswort Bridge could be good to search up at the end of your opponent's turn.

The first two of these four ideas were probably good.

Not sure why you wouldn't want Treetops in a deck like this. Knight of the Reliquary seems awfully slow in a format without fetchlands.

My deck has 4 panoramas. Knight was playing very nicely with them.

Panoramas are just bad though. They were just okay in block, I can't see them being good enough in standard. You have better options and justifying them by playing Knight is just digging a deeper hole.

9 Forest
4 Plains
1 Island
4 Bant Panorama
2 Flooded Grove
2 Wooded Bastion
1 Treetop Village
1 Mosswort Bridge

2 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Heirarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Rhox War Monk
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Oversoul of Dusk
1 Rafiq of the Many

3 Bant Charm
4 Path to Exile
4 Manamorphose
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Loxodon Warhammer
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant


I ditched the Ambushers for KotR. This meant Nettle Sentinels weren't nearly as good, so I dropped them and Snakeform.

Should I be running Negate instead of O-ring? I am mostly just worried about planeswalkers.

Is this version worse than the previous one?

I've been playing with the panoramas since Shards was released, and I've always like 'em. I'm probably justifying the Knight because of the panoramas and not the other way around. I'm going to continue testing it and if it is too slow I'll make changes.

tulsatrey wrote:
The first two of these four ideas were probably good.

That might be the most intelligent thing I've heard you say.

I'd play 3-4 Treetops, no Birds, no Mosswort Bridge. Keep Noble Hierarchs. Fuck the Panoramas, add some painlands and maybe a triland or two. After I cut the Manamorphoses I'd want to go up to 24 lands probably, so +2 there. You can probably play about 4 painlands and 6 filterlands safely. Consider Reflecting Pool at that point.

As far as the spells go, I'm going to note two things:
1. Your only out to Goblin Outlander seems to be Oversoul of Dusk
2. Apparently Chapin things the bext big thing is Ancient Ziggurat-fueled Doran/Bant decks. His most recent build:

4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Birds Of Paradise
4 Boggart Ram-gang
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Treefolk Harbinger
4 Wilt-leaf Liege
4 Doran, The Siege Tower
4 Rafiq Of The Many

2 Path To Exile
4 Tower Above
1 Nameless Inversion
1 Loxodon Warhammer

2 Forest
4 Ancient Ziggurat
3 Brushland
3 Llanowar Wastes
4 Murmuring Bosk
3 Reflecting Pool
2 Treetop Village
2 Yavimaya Coast

He admits it's rough but he likes Ram-Gang better than War Monk. I'm not sure how good Tower Above is in a format with Path to Exile and other excellent instant-speed removal, but you could try it. Another build he threw out there:

4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Civic Wayfinder
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Wilt-leaf Liege
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Doran, The Siege Tower

4 Profane Command
2 Thoughtseize
2 Eyeblight's Ending
2 Nameless Inversion

3 Forest
1 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Brushland
4 Gilt-leaf Palace
3 Llanowar Wastes
4 Murmuring Bosk
4 Treetop Village

This one looks more normal. You might be a little short on Treefolk for Bosk though.

I would want the following in a midrange deck right now:
1. Ability to deal with tokens, either Bitterblossom or Spectral Procession. So Cloudthresher basically.
2. Can't lose too much tempo to Path into Exile. You could either play enough things to overload their Paths, play things like Broodmate Dragon which are two (or more) threats in one, play things that are slightly less expensive, or play Banefire so you get +1 damage in the end.
3. Can deal with Mistbind Clique, Sower of Temptation, things like Siege-Gang, midcombat Cloudthresher, other midrange decks. Shriekmaw+Profane Command might be okay, but then you just get timewalked by Mistbind Clique every time. I would want Terrors or Paths. Redcap could be a replacement for Shriekmaw if you want. 4-6 removal spells main seems right, assuming you're not going to toss in Remove Soul or something.
4. Thoughtseize would be nice.

So I would either like to be a 5-color control deck or a Jund ramp deck, basically. Thrinax could make the Jund deck better vs RDW, which could be relevant. Then again Magma Spray might make it not good anyway. I could see Ancient Ziggurat working somehow, but other than that I'd just rather have Broodmate Dragons.

that last list makes me all warm and fuzzy inside...

Updated. This deck is still fun to play and wins games. Has trouble against BW and RW token strategies though.

Main Deck (60 cards)

7x Forest

1x Island

4x Plains

1x Brushland

1x Flooded Grove

1x Wooded Bastion

4x Bant Panorama

1x Treetop Village

2x Mosswort Bridge

2x Birds of Paradise

4x Noble Hierarch

4x Knight of the Reliquary

2x Kitchen Finks

4x Rhox War Monk

2x Oversoul of Dusk

1x Rafiq of the Many

2x Oblivion Ring

4x Bant Charm

4x Manamorphose

2x Negate

2x Path to Exile

2x Loxodon Warhammer

1x Sigil of Distinction

Sideboard (15 cards)

1x Pithing Needle

3x Relic of Progenitus

2x Qasali Ambusher

4x Scattershot Archer

2x Path to Exile

3x Remove Soul